I could see a lot of internal politics going on that really bothered me, but the higher education change was the "beginning of the end" for me. As I recall, it was in November of 1992 or 1993. There was a Watchtower article that said we could go ahead and pursue a higher education with a view to earning a "decent living", but only if we did so with a goal of regular pioneering. So, if I don't pioneer, I shoudn't be able to earn a "decent living"? I that was a bunch of crap. What right did they have to micromanage my life like that? They had no idea what it was like in the real world. Half of the idiots writing this garbage hadn't even had a real job. Why, why, was I taking career advice from them? It took a long time for me to fade completely, but I never looked at anything they said the same way after that. I could see that they didn't give a crap about me. Only their interests.
grey matters
JoinedPosts by grey matters
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15
What big changes made by the Borg bothered you when you were in?
by LovesDubs ini came in in 1984. at that time they were beating it into us not to have kids or go to college because the end was soooo near and the generation that saw 1918 was about all dead and we couldnt go much further.
they were touting the whole peace and security cry and then there was the peace and security convention in like 1985 that had us all abuzz after which of course nothing happened.
then they went and changed the definition of the generation in 1994 saying of course since armageddon didnt come after the 80 years had gone by that defined the old one that they basically had to go to plan b...or plan m by now, and that the generation was now everybody since 1918 who has or will live during the time of the end ad infinitum!!!
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14
Are brothers discouraged from using props in talks?
by truthseeker ina few years ago in my old hall, it was common to see brothers use props in their talks, whether it was a public talk or during one of the theo.
school talks.. now, noone uses props.. just one of the many things gone by the wayside that used to make talks more interesting..
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grey matters
I guess this is just me, but I always thought props were a cop out. I thought it was more of a challenge to communicate an illustration verbally. The other thing I thought was cheesy was when a brother would bring several bound volumes up with him and read from them to make his points.
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78
JWs: Biggest Turnover Rate of Members! "Masked churn" rate of 2/3rds!!
by Seeker4 inan article just out this afternoon said the following.
note especially the second paragraph about jws: .
for some groups, their relatively steady number of adherents over the years hides a remarkable amount of coming and going.
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grey matters
This is sad, considering how witness parents are told to treat their children who leave. Then again, it really says something about the religion when they leave anyway.
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78
JWs: Biggest Turnover Rate of Members! "Masked churn" rate of 2/3rds!!
by Seeker4 inan article just out this afternoon said the following.
note especially the second paragraph about jws: .
for some groups, their relatively steady number of adherents over the years hides a remarkable amount of coming and going.
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grey matters
From the report on Pew Forum:
- Jehovah's Witnesses have the lowest retention rate of any religious tradition. Only 37% of all those who say they were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses still identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses.
Fits with my experience....
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5
Are You Under the Influence of a Destructive Group? Quiz
by grey matters ini came accross this while looking for something completely different.
it really jumped off the page at me.
i can't say that i would reply yes to every question.
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grey matters
I came accross this while looking for something completely different. It really jumped off the page at me. I can't say that I would reply Yes to every question. For instance, on the one about communications within, into and out of the group, I would be more inclined to say "well, yeah, sort of". But 99% of these questions would get a strong Yes from me.
In the interest of complying with the terms and conditions of re-posting this here, this is the site URL where it came from:
http://www.caic.org.au/biblebase/abuse/selfquiz.htm
Are you "UNDER THE INFLUENCE"
of a destructive group or belief system?
Find out with this
SELF QUIZ:- Does your group discourage doubts, criticism or ideas that differ from their belief system?
Yes____No____- Do you tend to rationalize whatever the group does even when it goes against your sense of right and wrong?
Yes___ No___- Do you often feel exhausted from lengthy group activities, meetings and projects?
Yes___ No___- Does your group have its own unique words, cliches, slogans, chants, prayers and doctrinal phrases that reinforce the group viewpoint?
Yes___ No___- Are doubts viewed as a lack of faith, dedication, commitment or disloyalty?
Yes___ No___- Have "your thoughts" become "the enemy?"
Yes___ No___- Do you often find yourself doing more and more things in the group or because of group peer pressure that you would not have done on your own?
Yes___ No___- Does your group publicly humiliate or criticize members?
Yes___ No___- Does your group have a system of punishments and rewards for behavior?
Yes___ No___- Group paranoia: Does your group obsessively think other groups or people with different beliefs are out to get them?
Yes___ No___- Does the prospect of leaving your group seem scary, difficult?
Yes___ No___- Do you feel the need to leave in secret?
Yes___ No___- Have you been told something bad might happen if you leave?
Yes___ No___- Does your group/belief system think they have/are the only or highest truth, or have the solution for the world’s problems?
Yes___ No___- Are your leader’s ideas or belief system considered beyond reproach or sacred?
Yes___ No___- Do you follow a particular individual or belief system that requires unquestioning obedience and loyalty?
Yes___ No___- ) Do members of your group feel specially chosen, superior, exclusive, elite?
Yes___ No___- Do you feel the need to save or convert others to your belief system or ideology?
Yes___ No___- Is your group secretive to outsiders about its inner workings, teachings, activities or beliefs?
Yes___ No___- Does your group equate purity and goodness to being in your group, and impurity or evil to those outside your group?
Yes___ No___- Do you place your group’s mission or agenda above your own goals and ideals? Do group interests come before your own interest
Yes___ No___- Do you find yourself thinking in a we-they, us-versus-them mind set?
Yes___ No___- Does your group/system have a clear outside enemy?
Yes___ No___- Do you see less and less of your family and friends who do not belong to your group or who do not subscribe to your group’s belief system?
Yes___ No___- Does your group use frequent public testimonials, confessions, or sharings that reinforce the group’s mission or agenda?
Yes___ No___- Is communication within, into and out of your group controlled or censored in any manner?
Yes___ No___- Does your group criticize, shun, abandon or demean individuals who leave the group?
Yes___ No___- Do members seek approval or get permission from group leader(s) for personal life choices?
Yes___ No___- Do you feel pressured to attend meetings, events, lectures, seminars? And do you feel guilty if you don’t attend?
Yes___ No___- Do you feel pressured to give a portion of your income to the group, or spend money on courses, books or special projects?
Yes___ No___- Are the group’s financial needs more important than your own economic well-being?
Yes___ No___- Does your group discriminate against anyone regarding race, gender, belief, or sexual orientation?
Yes___ No___- Does your group have a totalitarian structure: a strict, top-down centralized control?
Yes___ No___
Do you wonder if you have been in a destructive group?
Do you......have difficulty forming new friendships and intimate relationships?
Yes___ No___...have low self-esteem, poor self-image or loss of identity?
Yes___ No___...have difficulty making simple decisions and choices?
Yes___ No___...often feel depressed, anxious and nervous?
Yes___ No___...feel isolated, lonely, guilty, cynical?
Yes___ No___...feel like you are just now growing up, becoming a mature adult?
Yes___ No___...have short-term memory difficulties?
Yes___ No___...feel you have nothing to believe in?
Yes___ No___...often feel anger and rage towards the group?
Yes___ No___...have nightmares or unpleasant dreams?
Yes___ No___...find it difficult or impossible to stop mental or other group ritualistic practices?
Yes___ No___
This quiz has no scientifically predetermined number of "yes" answers to indicate a distructive group. However, answering "yes" to any of the above questions means you may need to examine your group and its influence in your life in those areas.All the documents on this site are copyright 1998 by John D. Goldhammer and Prometheus Books. You may freely save, distribute or re-post this information with full credit given to this site's URL.
- Does your group discourage doubts, criticism or ideas that differ from their belief system?
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37
As a JW, did you ever stand for the national anthem ...
by Frequent_Fader_Miles inmy conscience wouldn't allow me to do otherwise.
after all, this is the country that schooled me and fed me.
i use all the infrastructure here, and am entitled to all rights and benefits that any other citizen was entitled to.
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grey matters
The way I understood it growing up, it was "WTS legal" to stand during the flag salute at school as long as you didn't actually say the flag salute. It was respectful to stand, but over the line to say the pledge.
At sporting events, when the anthem was played, you weren't being asked to say or sing anything, just to stand. So you were obligated by the WTS to act like an a-hole and sit through the whole thing. I remember growing up that we did that as a family at a number of sporting events. Then we seemed to evolve to the "go buy a hot dog" act.
At the start of my fade, I remember being at a hockey game where an American team was playing a Canadian team. Everyone in the arena stood for the Canadian anthem. It didn't mean they were worshiping Canada, or that everyone was Canadian now. It was a simple display of respect. After that, I always stood. I was spotted by witnesses once, and got counseled for it. The next game, I had the same seat, and I stood again. Of course, by then I just didn't care anymore.
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14
Download link for the WT 2006 CD ROM anyone?
by nicolaou ina direct link is much preferred to a bit torrent if possible.. thanks.
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grey matters
Ok, it looks like this has already been resolved. But just in case it is helpful, I also put it here:
http://z08.zupload.com/download.php?file=getfile&filepath=63810
You have to type this link in manually. For some reason, if you just click on it, the letters "amp" will get added after the ampersand, and that throws the link off. But if you type it in, it works fine.
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14
Download link for the WT 2006 CD ROM anyone?
by nicolaou ina direct link is much preferred to a bit torrent if possible.. thanks.
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grey matters
The .iso is 441MB. Pardon my ignorance here, but are there sites that will allow you to just upload a file of that size for sharing for free?
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14
Download link for the WT 2006 CD ROM anyone?
by nicolaou ina direct link is much preferred to a bit torrent if possible.. thanks.
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grey matters
I have an .iso for 2006, but I don't have a server to upload it to. If nothing else works out, PM me and I can burn a CD and snail mail it to you.
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34
Not been here for a while
by fullofdoubtnow inthis is the first time i've been on here in about a month, though trev has been posting some days, so i've been able to keep up with everyone's news.
thankyou all so much for the well wishes you keep sending me, they all mean so much.
apart from my other problems, i've had a really painful back injury for the last few weeks, which has made it impossible for me to sit comfortably at the pc.
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grey matters
It is great to hear from you! I'm glad you are back home. My thoughts are with you both.